Wednesday, May 13, 2009

Good question - wish I had an answer

Brian's comment that he left on my blog titled "What is community?" raised some good questions that I am not sure that I have answers for. How do you teach people, especially guys, to have friendships with depth? Which is part of what being in community is about. Most guys that I know would fit the term "relationally retarded" as Brian described it. Once you finish talking about sports, work, their hobby if they have one, girls (which may be their hobby especially in high school/college) then you are pretty much left with talking about the weather. I understand that not everyone you meet will produce in-depth conversation, but I do think everyone should be able to talk in-depth to someone. Guys generally just don't get how to talk about things that matter because it means they have to mentally or emotionally put themselves on the line which require trust and vulnerability. How do they learn to have community? By seeing it? I don't know if that works. I think we are pretty good consumers (watching it in front of us) but don't often put into practice that knowledge. Why do you think so many Christians have the head knowledge (can tell you what you should do), but fail to practically live it out? We consume lots of information so I don't think that just seeing it lived out in front of someone will really teaches them community. Honestly I think it requires someone investing heavily in another person to truly get what community means. That is why I question whether you can structure a group to produce community. I think that framework may open the possibility to community but rarely will it produce it within that group. Most people don't know what true community looks like so seeing it may produce a desire for it, but then we have the responsibility to take it deeper. I have lead several small groups over the years. Those groups can be fun and have a purpose but rarely does it produce consistent in-depth conversations. What they do provide though is a place for me to start investing deeper with a couple of specific people. That is when community starts happening in my mind. I can only think of twice in my life when I was able to go deep in conversation and be transparent with another guy quickly. Most of the time it has happened over years and with intentional thought into taken those friendships deeper. So what's the answer? Investing in people over time and learning to trust each other. With those things come the community that I think a lot of people long for. No quick fix, but consistency over time. Sorry to break it to you, but your Facebook friends probably won't be there for you when things get tough and you need to be real with someone. A few might, but it will be the ones who have invested in you. What do you think? How do you learn to have real friendship that will last over time?

7 comments:

jamie said...

I think you are right. I think there has to be some magic involved. What I mean by that is that when real community happens I think its the result of a God thing. I don't think it can be manufactured.

I think there are intentional things that i do, which God I think either may or may not use as part of the magic. I have to be conciously vulnerable. I have to show guys that its ok to be real. I have to always be contexting (word?) Grace and Safety.

I think that we can create environments and provide oppurtunities, but I think we can even try to train leaders with practical ways to get from here to there. I think it would probably happen best in the discipleship context. But at the end of the day I have to pray for magic, and the living thing that happens when community starts to develop. And then, it doesnt always happen. Just like real church doesn't always happen on Sunday mornings. There is an intangible to it.

Those are my thoughts.
Jamie

jamie said...

Really great thoughts Jamie. I liked what you said a lot. I really think that you add a lot to this dialogue Jamie, and I have to admit that I agree with you most of the time. I want to use this time to tell you that you have really inspired me through the years. In fact, sometimes I have to wonder where I would be without you?

Jamie

Kenton McCracken said...

Hi Kenneth. Great discussion. Jamie turned me on to your blog and I'm glad he did. I agree with your conclusions on community and friendship. Time is definitely a factor in the quality of a friendship. Also the amount of effort (investment) we put into it will be key. But also, I think there's an intangible quality in some people that helps us to connect. It's a quality that lets you know you are safe - safe to be real. Maybe it's humility. Maybe it's grace. When you find these people you are free to be real and honest about all of your "stuff". When that person listens with love, caring and humility - you can't help but connect. Deep down, we are all desperate to be real, even if we put up fronts that cover the fact. That's why I love Celebrate Recovery so much. You can't help but have community when you are around a group of people that are real about there problems and know that they have a place to be loved, no matter their circumstance. But, even within a group like CR, you find those special people with whom you connect on an even deeper level - those that will love you and hold you accountable and will honestly listen. It's a community within a community. Obviously, there is no way to connect with everyone in a church or a group. But, if we would look to connect with just one or two, then everyone can be joined in a larger context - a spirit of love and concern. The smaller "groups" build the bigger community.

Kenton

Kenneth said...

Thanks guys for adding your voices to the mix. I agree with the intangbile feel to it. I know it when I experience it, but I don't know how to manufacture it. I think giving it the opportunity is the best I can do because really I can only control my side of it anyway. I think you two are on to something with the humility/grace that allows others to be open. I can work on those qualities and then provide opportunities for community to happen.

Jamie, I would have to agree with Jamie's comment about adding a lot to the dialogue. I cracked up when I read the second comment. Thanks for providing my day with a little more laughter.

Keep the dialogue coming.

Kenton McCracken said...

Really great thoughts Jamie. I liked what you said a lot. I really think that you add a lot to this dialogue Jamie, and I have to admit that I agree with you most of the time. I want to use this time to tell you that you have really inspired me through the years. In fact, sometimes I have to wonder where I would be without you?

jamie said...

I guess its unanimous. Jamie Rocks!!!!

brian said...

I think your comment, "I think that framework may open the possibility to community but rarely will it produce it within that group" is right on.
I also really liked what Jamie said. He's my hero. A real "Blog commenting genius." But that other Jamie seems like a real kiss-up.